whew!!!!!

*******
identitywoman.net.
samuel dlany, times square blue book, porn & theory. theoryporn! porntheory!

ping! he says someone came up to him and said “hi token male…”

jen complalins that she doesn’t get hatemail or trolls. melissa offers her a new trolll…..

**

law chick. reading something to us. hello, boring! shut the fuck up! cpm what? who cares!!! sorry. you don’t have to shut up, really… I’m having a bad attitude in the back of the classroom moment…

flaming, blaming, and shaming!!!

la queen sucia. yay!
ellen sperdis. yay wow! i love her!!!
someone else. someone who is giving away prizes!!!

flaming, from wikipedia!
hostility.
emails that say “why don’t you shut the fuck up.” er, i just said that. but i didn’t mean it…
is there a difference in “why don’t you shut the fuck up” vs. flaming women differently, why dont you shut the fuck up BITCH.”

a little bit of “women are politer.” er whatever. let’s be a little ruder, and be more tolerant of rudeness.

women speaking in groups. susan haring (herring?) when women post more than 30% of the content, men say that the women are taking over and they become more hostile in a group. this was an analysis of a professional linguist list. using the masters tools ont he masters house.

jo spanglemonkey pokes me in hte arm. “i just blogged about you. go look.” ha….

la queen sucia says she was a staff writer at the boston globe and la times. frustrated at mainstream media. wrote 4000 word resignation letter while 3 months pregnant, men w/ same job description and who hadn’t even finished college… Oh!!!! i read about this. her resignation letter was sent all around the n3ewsroom and to other media and was nonconsensually published in the st. petersburg times. she suddenly got 800 emails in one day. media talking about her as the crazy journalist who had a breakdown. all the language used to describe her was special putting-down-woman language, like “histrionics” or “sassy”. our table erupts in bitter laughter. and jen of notcalm going “perky. sassy.” “feisty.” “fiery.”

luuuuke f0rd is her creepy stalker from australia son of a baptist minister who converted to judaism and covers the porn industry. and he is super horrible creepy jackass. omg

OMG this is the best story ever. I remember whenthis happened. “men don’t have to directly tell you that they don’t like you , or why, because you are a LOUD WOMAN. they will do it by using those words to keep you down.” I’m sniffing a little with tears…

mobile? mobol? an anonymous blogger. but she says not anonymous at all. debi jones. her real name is in the feed.

audience. “when I came out as a woman…. uh, isn’t that weird…. hahaha… people who thought I was a guy, got really upset. the flaming I get now is very different from the flaming i get n ow. some of the top bloggers, the political ones. it’s your issue, you’re talking as an interest group, it’s your issue, you’re emotional, it’s not the big picture” la queen sucia says it’s racial too, when the see the last name they get defensive t hat you hate white people… “my cuban ancestors were white slaveowners… hahahah… it shows the way they think that they assume i hate them …”

person who said whenI came out as a woman.. who is she ? that was funny…

politicalpanel – ugly character assasination… they people who enjoy politics sometimes enjoy mixing it up and yell at peoepl, but it’s alienating. it’s the tone set by the authors even when using software that is designed to allow community to form. eventho some people are always going to act in an ugly way, how do we encourage community andmore respectful dialogue space.

Well – what I think is that public discourse is a bit messy and ugly by nature… but yes actuallyk I agree that things get way too hostile. I want to be hostile here sometimes, … but then can come down off my high horse and change my mind, or feel less angry and hostile later.

ellen sper. wrote a filter to recognize insulting hate mail. hahahaha! back in 1995.
if life gives you shit, make free fertilizer.
flame research. instead of feeling bad when someone flames me, I feel like it’s more data. we can do that with hostile comments to our blogs!

****

one-upping. vs. bonding.
we need more one-upping practice. and boasting.
heh. la reina sucia does an essentialist take-down!!!!!! applause….
contentious blogger talks avbout the various types of onlikne vermin.
search on online vermin.
deborah tannen, the argument culture.

debi jones, i’m a flamer.

i’ve had my hand up for like 10 minutes, alas. dying to say that How to suppress women’s writing would be an ideal starting point for ellen spertus’s idea of codifying misogynist flames

chick who i cna’t see… who got flamed on alas a blog… she was used to being flamed on nytimes cinema stuff, but… the level of stupidity was way greater… a nasty usenet group level of stupid.

editing comments. Yes – lots of people do.

la sucia… from albuquerque… weird that people think of her as famous… she has a book….
yow, i’ll totally buy her book. she’s so brilliant! She got rid of anonymous comments. the more visibility – the people look at you and read you, they see themselves. they are dealing with their own issues. they look at you as a mirror of them.

her stereotypes… in her 2nd book she is making a right wing republican born again xtian from texas…. and makes her loveable. to fight stereotypes. those people are the ones who love the book… and then they go read the blog and cry when they realize she is a progressive who hates bush. and those peoepl actualy hate her. and she worried about losingn readers. but… it is best…

drive-by zealots. aliases, can say whatever, no accountability. a whole new level of idiocy.
develop thick skin.

dooce talks about how we need tools to deal with comments, trolls, debates, flame wars in one’s comments. (what about self-policing community in comments? ranking, slashdot style, and de-ranking? ) Trollrating. the moderator brings up trollrating….. we need more of that. hard to manage….

i get to coment suggesting joanna russ how to suppress, and suzette haden elgin books….

la reina points out the demeaning way chick lit is used… the pink stripe on the book “means” it’s fun, trivial, unserious….

mobile jones speaks up again in favor of flaming and anger. they have a place. they can be okay. (again – I agree with her… and think we can’t expect safe space, safety all the time..l..)

oh the moderator’s name is Liza. she’s cool!!!!

*******

jo a nd I run off to the hijacked men’s bathroom. i strip & am photographed in an exuberant pose! In homage to nakedjen. Yay nakedjen, we all love you!

“naked” panel.

quote from dooce. “this blog has been my main … somethign… in my fight against oppression….” wow good! link to this.

audience member (what is her blog? name? ) benefits of being “blog-out” in personal life. a constant struggle… i got dooced… but it was all for the best. benefits vs. what you worry about. how to balance.

dooce: everyone goes thru this. you feel inviniclbe, powerful, exhilarating, people listening, you feelyou can say anything. what i didnt’ take into account is that you ahve responsibilities to the people in your life. specifically if you want a good relationship with your mother, don’t write a diatribe against the mormon church 2 days after 9/11. would you say it to their face, or not? as for the public face… working thru depression…. a sort of group therapy session with my readers. developed a group of friends, they helped me through going to the hospital, couldn’t cope with motherhood., a hard thing to admit to the world…

someone else on panel- benefits. benefits enormous personal ones of knowing myself. crabby old lady, or me… my alter ego, she gets to bitch a lot more than i do and is much funnier. writing in the 3rd person is like that. can say more. iv’e leanred more in the last 2 years than i have in the previous 62.

Koan. benefits. grace said somethingn about narcissism. I’d like my blog to be absolutely redunant because it’s totally normal. but no. it’s difficult. so going thru the process i’m going thru… (what process, trans I think.) i’m trying to give hope and comfort to people like me who are lonely… identity blogger…. i used to be able to say this (takes off jacket and shows tshirt back, “proud to be a trans person” ) and now I can. *wild applause from audience*

the crabby old lady always makes a point of saying how old she is. she always does. because you’re not supposed ot. and now… it’s just not a big deal anymore! everyone’s doing it! this little corner of the blogosphere is beginning to change. Oh, her name is Ronnie.

moderator. The world has been able to accomodate this information. Could we have done this 5 years ago? wrote about our personal lives?

ronnie – personal life blog 4 years ago. was anonymous. I was afraid to put me out there. This time around (you’ll never know that that blog was… ) I made the decision to put me out there. I talk about what it’s like to get older. I can’t ask people to talk about that with me if i’m not honest about what I do. and who i am.

dooce – 5 years ago there was no way a mainstream amagazine would hire a stay at home mom to write every day about her constipation. Now I can… it’s going to get better & better and bigger and bigger.

Jen – mama needs coffee. Did you ever have amoment when you weren’t sure you should… When I came out about being a recovering addict. and got comments about how i shouldn’t and should be more cautious and about how my kids should be taken away.

dooce – i ‘ll be naked. i came off zoloft. and it made me sick and I had been depressed most of my life… and people warned me… but post partum depression, i was in denial many months about it, that i was that weak. i wasn’t feel naturally maternal. my husband was having a hard time living with me. you’d never know it bc I never wrote about it.. i felt i was lying to him and to people who had supported me most, my readers. my readers wer supportive though, we’re not going to judge you for it. in telling them i’m finally admitting it to myself. but .. the fear of having your children taken away….

{I should say here as badgerbag and as Liz that this is my own really huge fear. i wish I could be out. and rook thinks it is only a matter of time. but I’m terrified of it. I’m tearing up here… it’s really hard for me NOT to be out.]

Ronnie . on taking care of her mom for the last 3 months of her mom’s life. she didnt’ pull punches. every day when someone’s dying something else goes wrong and no one can tell you what to do about it. because no one talks about it. but the email from readers.. who had the same stories, or yhounger people who were looking forward and thinking “what to do when this happens?”

moderator – says that a lot of peopel in the room are right now thinking about taking it a step further ont heir blogs. everyone on panel says it’s the best thing they ever did. they expected to be flamed, harrassed, stalked, but it didn’t happen.

i speak up about my own fears and about sj and i, asshole.

ronnie suggeests private password blog for some things.
mina talks about LJ and the importance of anonymity. she then goes off… anything she writes reflects on the company… i couldn’t write about my own vacation, because people would give me grief about the company…

then – also – cherish your small intimate readership. don’t go looking for more traffic too hard.

well, oops, too late as i just thoughtlessly handed out like 50 little cards with my blog addy on it.

person in audience – she likes stranger-readers. hates when people she KNOWS find it. prefers people she doesn’t know.

Koan – if you write a post, imagine that worst person in the world to read that post. and if you would regret it, then don’t post it. Also — respect for other people in life and their risks.

moderator – I had to clean up my relationships. when i got more traffic. and i had a number of uncomfortable conversations. but it ended up being a good thing. i explained my intentions.

ronnie – you deon’t have to let that get in the way of a good story. when there’s a good story, i change the name and tell the story. i don’t have to say who they are or their relationship to me.

susan – stalkers and personal attacks. one woman writing about her sexual life. and someone started stalking her. and on my blog, a professional blog, i had a troll who knew me and was very nasty. how do you handle it?

(Are these issues all that different from other kinds of public life?)

dooce… actually the address on my site is a p.o. box.
stalkers. all women who hate her. “i threaten them with my legal team. but, my legal team is… my dog.”

Koan – living in new forest in england. No one can threaten me with outing, because I already outed myself in every possible way!!!!!

Ronnie — you shouldn’t post photos of your kids on the internet. (hmmph.)

liz ditz – it’s nothign new. it happens on and offline.

guy with glasses – has 2 daugheters, 12 and 9. they videoblog. my one daughter ended up on abcnews. people were concernedd but we all talked about it and agreed it’s okay. what, mostly kidds get abducted by non custodial parent – not by internet stalker.

ronnie strongly disagrees. shse says there are scary crazy peopel out there…..

I agree with the dude in glasses. What, culture of fear thing? arrrgh!!! I mean… you could say the same thing about women being in the public sphere at ALL. we gonna get stalked, abducted, raped, killed? WTF. Ronnie you are perpetuating culture of fear mindset. “Who’s going to stalk a 64 year old woman.” what… i have to be afraid but you don’t?

mindy of themommyblog. you can get stalked ANYWAY. internet or not. I post photos of my kids…. I didn’t back away from using their photos and real names.

have topic blog and identity blog? do people have multiple anonymous ones?

amy gerron – contentious. poly. open and aboveboard. yay!!!!!

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